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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 11:42:49 GMT -5
try using a little common sense. what did poland gain by not negotiating? if i'm walking through the jungle and a gorilla wants one of my bananas, i'm going to give him one. i'm not going to spit in his eye. Lmfao. What did literally everyone who did negotiate with Hitler gain? Your policy of appeasement is exactly why WWII happened. Hitler made many agreements, with many nations. He reneged on many but not all. Exhausting nonviolent means to avoid conflicts before using military force is war 101, not suicide. A policy of appeasement leading to World War II is a myth. What led to World War II, aside from World War I, was a crazed dictator. Britain was ill-equipped to go to war with Hitler in 1938, nor was there any public appetite for it. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 11:51:52 GMT -5
Lmfao. What did literally everyone who did negotiate with Hitler gain? Your policy of appeasement is exactly why WWII happened. Hitler made many agreements, with many nations. He reneged on many but not all. Exhausting nonviolent means to avoid conflicts before using military force is war 101, not suicide. A policy of appeasement leading to World War II is a myth. What led to World War II, aside from World War I, was a crazed dictator. Britain was ill-equipped to go to war with Hitler in 1938, nor was there any public appetite for it. So you contradict yourself. First you blame Poland, and then say the crazed dictator (Hitler) was responsible. And Hitler "reneged" on many agreements, not all and that Poland should have negotiated. What would lead Poland to believe he wouldn't reneg on any agreement, considering Hitler had ALREADY invaded areas that he had "negotiated" pacts with? |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 12:10:03 GMT -5
Hitler made many agreements, with many nations. He reneged on many but not all. Exhausting nonviolent means to avoid conflicts before using military force is war 101, not suicide. A policy of appeasement leading to World War II is a myth. What led to World War II, aside from World War I, was a crazed dictator. Britain was ill-equipped to go to war with Hitler in 1938, nor was there any public appetite for it. So you contradict yourself. First you blame Poland, and then say the crazed dictator (Hitler) was responsible. And Hitler "reneged" on many agreements, not all and that Poland should have negotiated. What would lead Poland to believe he wouldn't reneg on any agreement, considering Hitler had ALREADY invaded areas that he had "negotiated" pacts with? no one blamed Poland, that's just you trying to twist words around. poland however could have handled it differently and possibly avoided the conflict. the path they chose was suicide. |
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Post by Sir Tinley on Feb 10, 2024 12:14:28 GMT -5
You really don't know much about history. Few do. It's a national tragedy that hurts the country. |
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eXiT
Sophomore
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Post by eXiT on Feb 10, 2024 12:19:37 GMT -5
So you contradict yourself. First you blame Poland, and then say the crazed dictator (Hitler) was responsible. And Hitler "reneged" on many agreements, not all and that Poland should have negotiated. What would lead Poland to believe he wouldn't reneg on any agreement, considering Hitler had ALREADY invaded areas that he had "negotiated" pacts with? no one blamed Poland, that's just you trying to twist words around. poland however could have handled it differently and possibly avoided the conflict. the path they chose was suicide. Putin blamed Poland… that’s how we got on this topic to begin with. |
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Post by Sir Tinley on Feb 10, 2024 12:21:42 GMT -5
Negotiate disputed border territories, instead of just giving Hitler the finger. exactly what happened to poland by not negotiating? was that a better alternative? The very (exact) same thing that happened to Czechoslovakia. Hitler demanded the Sudetenland. That led to the Munich Agreement. Led by your man, Neville, Mr Peace, Chamberlain, the UK and France convinced the Czechs to give Hitler the Sudetenland for peace. Hitler set the terms of the negotiations. They gave him everything he wanted. For peace. To keep from another war. Peace in our time. So how did the peace negotiations work out- Hitler soon invaded Czechoslovakia. The "gain" from negotiating with someone hellbent on war was, shockingly, war..... |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 12:26:43 GMT -5
Negotiate disputed border territories, instead of just giving Hitler the finger. exactly what happened to poland by not negotiating? was that a better alternative? The very (exact) same thing that happened to Czechoslovakia. Hitler demanded the Sudetenland. That led to the Munich Agreement. Led by your man, Neville, Mr Peace, Chamberlain, the UK and France convinced the Czechs to give Hitler the Sudetenland for peace. Hitler set the terms of the negotiations. They gave him everything he wanted. For peace. To keep from another war. Peace in our time. So how did the peace negotiations work out- Hitler soon invaded Czechoslovakia. The "gain" from negotiating with someone hellbent on war was, shockingly, war..... Aside from being the one who declared war on Germany, I've already shown you that Chamberlain knew the UK was not prepared to fight Hitler, according to his own military advisors, and there was no public appetite for going to war over an area of Czechoslovakia that was primarily German. Poland not negotiating with Hitler was suicide. It led to 6 million deaths, and later an occupation by the Soviet Union that lasted decades. I realize we all think we're tough guys and would have done things differently, but sometimes you just have to use a little common sense. |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 12:29:44 GMT -5
no one blamed Poland, that's just you trying to twist words around. poland however could have handled it differently and possibly avoided the conflict. the path they chose was suicide. Putin blamed Poland… that’s how we got on this topic to begin with. No that's just you trying to twist words around and demonize him. It's a tactic MSM and the Hawks have been using to justify giving more Aid to what is a lost cause in Ukraine. Five or six of Putin's relatives were killed by the Nazis, and there are strict laws about promoting any Nazi propaganda in Russia. |
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Post by Sir Tinley on Feb 10, 2024 12:32:31 GMT -5
And Poland is why he is in Ukraine. Poland isn't simply a former Soviet puppet, they are the most anti Russia/Soviet nation with the strongest ties to the west. They are actively campaigning for a bigger role in NATO and a bigger US presence. They are leaders in supporting Ukraine both diplomatically and militarily. They also sit strategically in the path between Russia and western Europe. They isolate and separate Kaliningrad from Russia. They Pinch the crucial Baltic sea along with former Soviet states Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia along with Sweden and Denmark. Poland is a major problem for Russia that they don't want on the southern border. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 13:05:12 GMT -5
The very (exact) same thing that happened to Czechoslovakia. Hitler demanded the Sudetenland. That led to the Munich Agreement. Led by your man, Neville, Mr Peace, Chamberlain, the UK and France convinced the Czechs to give Hitler the Sudetenland for peace. Hitler set the terms of the negotiations. They gave him everything he wanted. For peace. To keep from another war. Peace in our time. So how did the peace negotiations work out- Hitler soon invaded Czechoslovakia. The "gain" from negotiating with someone hellbent on war was, shockingly, war..... Aside from being the one who declared war on Germany, I've already shown you that Chamberlain knew the UK was not prepared to fight Hitler, according to his own military advisors, and there was no public appetite for going to war over an area of Czechoslovakia that was primarily German. Poland not negotiating with Hitler was suicide. It led to 6 million deaths, and later an occupation by the Soviet Union that lasted decades. I realize we all think we're tough guys and would have done things differently, but sometimes you just have to use a little common sense. Common sense dictates that you don't try to negotiate with someone who has proven to have no desire to honor any agreements. Had Poland "negotiated" with Hitler, the end result would have been exactly the same... a German invasion of Poland. |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 13:09:26 GMT -5
Aside from being the one who declared war on Germany, I've already shown you that Chamberlain knew the UK was not prepared to fight Hitler, according to his own military advisors, and there was no public appetite for going to war over an area of Czechoslovakia that was primarily German. Poland not negotiating with Hitler was suicide. It led to 6 million deaths, and later an occupation by the Soviet Union that lasted decades. I realize we all think we're tough guys and would have done things differently, but sometimes you just have to use a little common sense. Common sense dictates that you don't try to negotiate with someone who has proven to have no desire to honor any agreements. Had Poland "negotiated" with Hitler, the end result would have been exactly the same... a German invasion of Poland. Common sense says you don't commit suicide when presented with bad choices. We don't know what the outcome would have been had they negotiated with Hitler. But we do know what the outcome was by being bold and not negotiating. Catastrophic. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 13:14:01 GMT -5
Putin blamed Poland… that’s how we got on this topic to begin with. No that's just you trying to twist words around and demonize him. It's a tactic MSM and the Hawks have been using to justify giving more Aid to what is a lost cause in Ukraine. Five or six of Putin's relatives were killed by the Nazis, and there are strict laws about promoting any Nazi propaganda in Russia. No, Putin actually did say Poland forced Hitler to invade. But we wouldn't expect you to be anything but a Putin apologist |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 13:17:10 GMT -5
Common sense dictates that you don't try to negotiate with someone who has proven to have no desire to honor any agreements. Had Poland "negotiated" with Hitler, the end result would have been exactly the same... a German invasion of Poland. Common sense says you don't commit suicide when presented with bad choices. We don't know what the outcome would have been had they negotiated with Hitler. But we do know what the outcome was by being bold and not negotiating. Catastrophic. We do know what would have happened. We can look to all the other examples of negotiations with Hitler ending with him invading. He wanted to invade Poland, and he was just looking for any excuse. And you believe Hitler (and (Putin). |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 13:29:39 GMT -5
No that's just you trying to twist words around and demonize him. It's a tactic MSM and the Hawks have been using to justify giving more Aid to what is a lost cause in Ukraine. Five or six of Putin's relatives were killed by the Nazis, and there are strict laws about promoting any Nazi propaganda in Russia. No, Putin actually did say Poland forced Hitler to invade. But we wouldn't expect you to be anything but a Putin apologist From a BBC article. Hardly Putin stooges. Perhaps Mr Putin's most inflammatory claim was regarding Poland. Mr Putin claimed that Poland - which was invaded by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939 - "collaborated with Hitler".The Russian president told his interviewer that by refusing to cede an area of Poland called the Danzig Corridor to Hitler, Poland "went too far, pushing Hitler to start World War Two by attacking them".He's not saying Hitler was forced to do anything, just that they were pushed to choose the next option which was invasion. There's really not much controversial here. Poland did refuse to cede the Danzig corridor area, so Hitler just chose Plan B, and attempted to take the whole country. There are also allegations that Poland was mistreating Germans, and acting provocatively because of their alliance with France and England. |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 13:36:21 GMT -5
Common sense says you don't commit suicide when presented with bad choices. We don't know what the outcome would have been had they negotiated with Hitler. But we do know what the outcome was by being bold and not negotiating. Catastrophic. We do know what would have happened. We can look to all the other examples of negotiations with Hitler ending with him invading. He wanted to invade Poland, and he was just looking for any excuse. And you believe Hitler (and (Putin). Typical liberal, can't carry on a discussion without twisting words and making personal attacks, accusing someone of being a hitler sympathizer. Hitler had several non-aggression agreements with foreign countries, and some he did not violate. We'll never know what Hitler would have done had Poland ceded the relatively small Danzig corridor. But we do know what happened when they refused. The worst of all worlds. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 13:38:59 GMT -5
No, Putin actually did say Poland forced Hitler to invade. But we wouldn't expect you to be anything but a Putin apologist From a BBC article. Hardly Putin stooges. Perhaps Mr Putin's most inflammatory claim was regarding Poland. Mr Putin claimed that Poland - which was invaded by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939 - "collaborated with Hitler".The Russian president told his interviewer that by refusing to cede an area of Poland called the Danzig Corridor to Hitler, Poland "went too far, pushing Hitler to start World War Two by attacking them".He's not saying Hitler was forced to do anything, just that they were pushed to choose the next option which was invasion. There's really not much controversial here. Poland did refuse to cede the Danzig corridor area, so Hitler just chose Plan B, and attempted to take the whole country. There are also allegations that Poland was mistreating Germans, and acting provocatively because of their alliance with France and England. Lol Give us your land or we will invade. (Land Hitler had NO claim to whatsoever) Not much of a choice for Poland. And those allegations you speak of...they have been proven to be fabrications by the SS and other German operatives. But continue being a Hitler and Putin apologist. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 13:41:53 GMT -5
We do know what would have happened. We can look to all the other examples of negotiations with Hitler ending with him invading. He wanted to invade Poland, and he was just looking for any excuse. And you believe Hitler (and (Putin). Typical liberal, can't carry on a discussion without twisting words and making personal attacks, accusing someone of being a hitler sympathizer. Hitler had several non-aggression agreements with foreign countries, and some he did not violate. We'll never know what Hitler would have done had Poland ceded the relatively small Danzig corridor. But we do know what happened when they refused. The worst of all worlds. By your own words, Hitler couldn't be trusted to honor pacts or treaties. Yet somehow you believe he would have honored a pact with Poland. Do you even pay attention to what you write? |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 13:47:17 GMT -5
From a BBC article. Hardly Putin stooges. Perhaps Mr Putin's most inflammatory claim was regarding Poland. Mr Putin claimed that Poland - which was invaded by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939 - "collaborated with Hitler".The Russian president told his interviewer that by refusing to cede an area of Poland called the Danzig Corridor to Hitler, Poland "went too far, pushing Hitler to start World War Two by attacking them".He's not saying Hitler was forced to do anything, just that they were pushed to choose the next option which was invasion. There's really not much controversial here. Poland did refuse to cede the Danzig corridor area, so Hitler just chose Plan B, and attempted to take the whole country. There are also allegations that Poland was mistreating Germans, and acting provocatively because of their alliance with France and England. Lol Give us your land or we will invade. (Land Hitler had NO claim to whatsoever) Not much of a choice for Poland. And those allegations you speak of...they have been proven to be fabrications by the SS and other German operatives. But continue being a Hitler and Putin apologist. The Danzig corridor was a relatively small piece of land so they could have access to the German population and Danzig. It would have been a small concession. They've been proven by who? The side that won the war and want everybody to believe that they were without fault? |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 13:48:56 GMT -5
Typical liberal, can't carry on a discussion without twisting words and making personal attacks, accusing someone of being a hitler sympathizer. Hitler had several non-aggression agreements with foreign countries, and some he did not violate. We'll never know what Hitler would have done had Poland ceded the relatively small Danzig corridor. But we do know what happened when they refused. The worst of all worlds. By your own words, Hitler couldn't be trusted to honor pacts or treaties. Yet somehow you believe he would have honored a pact with Poland. Do you even pay attention to what you write? I'm speaking from a practical point of view. If someone's holding a gun to my head and asks me to give them my wallet, I'm going to do it, rather than take a bullet in the head. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 15:10:29 GMT -5
Lol Give us your land or we will invade. (Land Hitler had NO claim to whatsoever) Not much of a choice for Poland. And those allegations you speak of...they have been proven to be fabrications by the SS and other German operatives. But continue being a Hitler and Putin apologist. The Danzig corridor was a relatively small piece of land so they could have access to the German population and Danzig. It would have been a small concession. They've been proven by who? The side that won the war and want everybody to believe that they were without fault? Germany gave up all claims to Danzig in the Tteaty of Versailles, and there certainly was no provision for any kind of corridor in the Treaty either. That was an excuse Hitler made up to use for an invasion. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 15:11:34 GMT -5
By your own words, Hitler couldn't be trusted to honor pacts or treaties. Yet somehow you believe he would have honored a pact with Poland. Do you even pay attention to what you write? I'm speaking from a practical point of view. If someone's holding a gun to my head and asks me to give them my wallet, I'm going to do it, rather than take a bullet in the head. If you've watched that person with a gun make that same deal with several other people and then watch as he still shot them in the head, would you still make that deal? |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 15:32:40 GMT -5
I'm speaking from a practical point of view. If someone's holding a gun to my head and asks me to give them my wallet, I'm going to do it, rather than take a bullet in the head. If you've watched that person with a gun make that same deal with several other people and then watch as he still shot them in the head, would you still make that deal? Germany had agreements for several nations that they didn't invade. a 75% chance of survival is better than zero. |
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Post by castles made of sand... on Feb 10, 2024 15:40:05 GMT -5
The Danzig corridor was a relatively small piece of land so they could have access to the German population and Danzig. It would have been a small concession. They've been proven by who? The side that won the war and want everybody to believe that they were without fault? Germany gave up all claims to Danzig in the Tteaty of Versailles, and there certainly was no provision for any kind of corridor in the Treaty either. That was an excuse Hitler made up to use for an invasion. Germany had no choice in the matter. The Treaty of Versailles was extremely flawed and resulted in Hitler gaining power and World War II. The reality was Danzig was 90% German and aligned with Germany. Giving access across the Danzig corridor would have been a small concession as opposed to the catastrophic consequences that resulted from not negotiating. |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 15:42:59 GMT -5
If you've watched that person with a gun make that same deal with several other people and then watch as he still shot them in the head, would you still make that deal? a 75% chance of survival is better than zero. Which ones? (And you didn't answer my question) |
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Post by BuckysRevenge on Feb 10, 2024 15:45:41 GMT -5
Germany gave up all claims to Danzig in the Tteaty of Versailles, and there certainly was no provision for any kind of corridor in the Treaty either. That was an excuse Hitler made up to use for an invasion. Germany had no choice in the matter. The Treaty of Versailles was extremely flawed and resulted in Hitler gaining power and World War II. The reality was Danzig was 90% German and aligned with Germany. Giving access across the Danzig corridor would have been a small concession as opposed to the catastrophic consequences that resulted from not negotiating. Germany had no choice, BECAUSE THEY LOST THE FIRST WORLD WAR. You would reward them for wanting to start another world war. Please don't run for any kind of office, because all your opposition would have to do is make threats and you would cave and give them everything they want. |
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